Thursday, August 7, 2008

wonderful day for a bananafish

i stumbled upon an article today online concerning the "cussing pastor" Mark Driscoll from Mars Hill in Seattle. It was dumb to say the least. It talked about how people left the service after Mark failed to cuss in one of his sermons. As if to say that the only reason a crowd was congregating was not to hear the gospel but instead to hear some vulgarities. Which is a good observation, I'll give this guy that. But he ends his blog-rant by saying that he hopes his group of readers would continue to pray against the ministry of Driscoll and his church of cussing wannabes. (dumb). Click here for article.

I just don't know that we can arrive as Christians and tell people to pray against a fellow brother and that his ministry would fail. 

Honestly i know very little about Driscoll and his ministry at Mars Hill, but I'm pretty sure that he is teaching the Gospel of Christ Jesus. Whether he cusses or has weird theology if he is teaching the Gospel let nothing hold that back. right? 

Yet in response we have Christians picketing against other Christians. Its no longer all efforts being focused towards battling the flesh and corruption and injustice and poverty and oppression, but its brothers against brothers fighting over doctrines and misquoted sermons. Liberal theology versus conservative theology. So we have a schism in the church. 
I've been talking to my good friend Max lately about a book called Velvet Elvis written by Rob Bell. He keeps telling about some of his friends and their views on this new book. They keep claiming his theology is flawed and that he doesn't believe in the virgin birth and all this stuff. The fact is they have never read Bell's new book at all and have only heard rumors of the content of the text. In fact Bell believes in the virgin birth and admits that in Velvet Elvis. Bell asks:
 
But what if as you study the origin of the word virgin, you discover that the word virgin in the gospel of Matthew actually comes from the book of Isaiah, and then you find out that in the Hebrew language at that time, the word virgin could mean several things. And what if you discover that in the first century being "born of a virgin" also referred to a child whose mother became pregnant the first time she had intercourse? What if that spring was seriously questioned? Could a person keep jumping? Could a person still love God? Could you still be a Christian? Is the way of Jesus still the best possible way to live? Or does the whole thing fall apart? I affirm the historic Christian faith, which includes the virgin birth and the Trinity and the inspiration of the Bible and much more.

All Bell is saying is that if we were to find out that the scriptures actually point to something different than what was taught to us in Baptist Sunday school would our faith come out null and void. The answer is no! By no means! So i think people just like to deem an idea heresy or foolish just because it is somewhat different than what they were taught. When what we should do is read into the idea and think about it. and wrestle with it. Then throw it out.
So all this to say that we should stop jumping on everyone and back talking our brothers, but rather listen to what they are saying and consider it. And if its nonsense toss it out.  Not saying everything Rob Bell says is absolute. It's not. He is not God. He is a man with an idea. Like all of us. A mere whisper.

I guess I've just seen a lot of this lately and heard so much that it gets at me. 

I honestly don't know where i stand on my theology. Old world? New world? Free will? Elected and Damned? I don't know! But i do know that i have sinned against the God of the universe and he came and died that i might live in a peaceful community with Him. 

6 comments:

Anonymous said...

I know you wrote this a while ago, but I feel like I should give you something else to think about.

It's true that Christians are always going to interpret the Bible differently. That is why we have different denominations. You should be able to think about which interpretation you believe, but at the same time God says that he will reveal things to you through prayer. I think that if you pray about it, God shows you the truth. But there are some things that the Bible makes very clear.

So you have to sit back and think, does someone like that, who cusses in a sermon, actually live the way that Christ wants him to, or portray Christianity the way Christ wants him to? There are such things as false prophets Mark. So you have to understand that not everyone is as introspective as you and that some Pastors like him can lead people to believe things that are not true about Christianity.

"2 He whose walk is blameless and who does what is righteous, who speaks the truth from his heart
3 and has no slander on his tongue....
He who does these things will never be shaken." Psalm 15

I think you and I can both agree that to cuss in a sermon is not something that God would find righteous and that is what God calls us to be, especially the men who are spreading the Gospel. Christ had the ability to relate to all people without compromising his holiness, and we are called to be examples of Christ. It is true we all sin, but what separates a Christian from a non-Christian is that we see our sin for what it really is and we try not to do it. He is obviously not trying to change the way he speaks, and God warned us in the Bible about our tongues.

"4 But you even undermine piety and hinder devotion to God.
5 Your sin prompts your mouth; you adopt the tongue of the crafty.
6 Your own mouth condemns you, not mine; your own lips testify against you." Job 15:4-6

I think that whoever wrote that article is right about his message being skewed by his vocabulary. But, you are right that we should not pray for him to fail. You should just pray that God changes his heart, and makes him realize that the way he is preaching is not a good representation of Christ.

Anyways, I wanted you to think a little more about it. I think that we need to be careful about who we choose to be examples of our faith, so that we show a true representation of what a Christian really is.

Reckless Rantings said...

i'm not sure that cussing is something that nullifies the gospel. i'm certain in some instances there are things that deserve the emotion of maybe an intense word. however, i'm not sure it's the elementary verbage that we should even be thinking about but what god is revealing through it.

i love you mark! glad i found your blog!

Unknown said...

Mark,

Online Discernmentalist Mafia is a satire blog. I. Todyaso is based on those people who are really nasty and rather dull in the head when it comes to what God is doing. They see things through their own relativistic understanding of Reformed sytematic theology.

I have nothing against Mark D. In fact the post was a slam at those that look so superficially at Mark D and miss what God is doing in and through him.

I even took a stand for him when some were protesting his as a mysogynist....

I. Todyaso is a combination of different "so called" Discernment ministries. None seem to have much discernmetnt and seem to hold everyone else to a standard they do not keep themselves.
Most of the time the point is that they are more judgemental and condemning than discerning.

Be blessed,

iggy aka I. Todyaso

Anonymous said...

Just stumbled across your blog via Kelly Cain's and thought I'd chime in considering this is something I have really been working with in the past couple years.

I really agree with this -

"So all this to say that we should stop jumping on everyone and back talking our brothers, but rather listen to what they are saying and consider it. And if it's nonsense toss it out."

Through my theology class this past year, we were given the opportunity (aka project) to visit churches of different denominations in order to really think through and wrestle with the questions, "What do I believe," and "why do I believe it?" This project truly unearthed a lot of controversy among denominations in our class...and what's funny is that once all was said and done, we would realize that the only cause to the disagreement in the first place was the fact that not one person was truly listening to what the other had to say.

Everyone has what they believe in, but that doesn't always mean that it is truth. We have to bend and be flexible to the ideas of our peers but also be firm in the foundation on which we stand. I wouldn't be where I am today in my faith if it weren't for my willingness to listen to what people had to say. We're supposed to learn from each other! To me, that's how Jesus worked...He came to teach the world, but He also elected people to teach His word...to make disciples of all nations. That's also what we've gotta do. We're here on account of His mission. Listening is what opens the door to connection with His people. If we believers would stop talking and listen to what non-believers were struggling with, maybe we could really do what we were called to do.

I'm hoping that this makes sense (and isn't heretical - haha).

church said...

Iggy,
Thanks for clearing that up, and for making me look il educated. I'll take all of the humiliation i can get. haha.

Unknown said...

Hello Church

just read your response to Iggy's post on satire. "re: making me look ill educated" Got to love a guy who is down to earth - your response is so very refreshing!!! I'll back to check out your blog.... keep writing!!!

All the best!

TheGroundworks